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149732-faction-split
Content ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- For the same reasons why we're technically cooperating at the Tree, Lightspire, and eventually Arcterra? There's a threat out there on Nexus and it doesn't care which color we wear. None of the bosses I believe actually call out our faction. I don't mind glossing over the lore for the exact reason why we get randomly put together in cross faction parties beyond "You need to represent the best of your faction in front of these losers" because I want better queue times and more Dungeons popping. | |} ---- The only thing I really see built around factions is the lore and PvP. I like the support for the idea so far though and letting cross faction group up together for PvE content, maybe even guild together. This idea is taken from rift I think they nailed it so well. | |} ---- ---- I'm more partial to the 'just wait until I get the opportunity to shoot you in the back' train of thinking. Maybe have some dailies like the one in LS where you rescue your faction and execute the enemy's allied npcs? | |} ---- Chua are supposed to be the Dominions answer to the cutesy feminine race that every mmo has. Although 'genderless' they are most definitely male; they look like males, they sound like males; Carbine need to add some feminine options (non cash-shop) if they want them to appeal to a wider audience. I love the Chua, they have the best animations of all the races and are the only midget race I've come across in an mmo that I don't despise, it's just a shame that more people don't play them. Back in September, Pappy stated in an interview with PC gamer that they had some plans to make the Chua more appealing. Given that we haven't heard or seen anything, this will likely turn out to be nothing. I for one would be very pleasently surpised if they made an effort to get more people to play on the Dominion. They could start by giving the Mechari glowing/flaming crystals (and also voices) like they have in the trailer. | |} ---- I wouldn't use Rift as an example. Trion just couldn't be bothered with fixing it so they just removed factions. They systematically removed any mention of a faction conflict when they revamped zones, contrary to their own lore. I would hope Carbine have more integrity. Trion have no integrity or pride in their games | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- I think its more about how evil Domi come across not just in their looks. Quests where you make sacrifices and impale skulls on spikes. While I hate bringing up WoW when you play Horde they seem sympathetic (when you play as them) or you can at least empathize on how they could make some of the decisions they make. Even Chua feel evil. | |} ---- C.o.G.S. already provides this role. Plus they administer all but 2 IIRC of the adventures. No reason dungeons / raids / whatever couldn't be administered by C.o.G.S. and members of both factions could work together through them.... this is already the case lore wise, and C.o.G.S. includes members of every playable race in game already.... We can have a major and meaningful faction conflict while also working together through 3rd party groups like C.o.G.S. or as Protostar contractors.... | |} ---- ^ This. I've always had a problem with this. I don't mind the hidden gender lore deal. I think it's kinda neat. But, when most of the customization options say male, the voice sounds male, the underwear looks male, and they do the male dance it's hard to see them as anything but male. I'm not saying we needs some sexy chua options (ugh) but they really needs some more female options, other than just pink fur. Maybe some longer hair styles. That kind of thing. I mean, look how many chua use that angel wig to give themselves hair. Also somehow add all the dance options to chua. Maybe make /dance randomly do either the male or female dance or give chua /dance3. I dunno. I do think we could get more Dominion players if chua had more options to look cute or female. Oh, and give mehari voices and working boots. Amazing how people like to play finished races instead of unfinished ones. I do want to point out that when I say "male" and "female" in this post I mean stereotypically male or female. | |} ---- "Uneasy Peacecraft" This Might have to be my next character name if you aren't going to use it. :D | |} ---- The Dominion doesn't come across as evil anywhere but in the PR and Exile quests. Everywhere else both factions / the Exiles appear evil. Both factions do seriously horrible things to innocent people and creatures. | |} ---- You had me at ridiculous. | |} ---- The thing is there isnt much of a war. We might disagree on a few things but we fight the same enemy PVE wise. PVP can still be split between those who just dont want to play nice etc etc. But for PVE I dont see why they couldnt bridge the gap for the health of the game currently. | |} ---- ---- Really? Galeras is an open warzone; as is Auroria. Whitevale was a warzone till the exiles blew a massive hole in the middle of it in a failed attempt to make a weapon of mass destruction that nearly dooms the planet... Even in the Defile quests have you in open conflict with the opposing faction. Like I said, use C.o.G.S. or protostar to bridge the gap for instanced content and housing. Remove the silly chat barrier which has no basis in lore to exist, and keep the faction seperation otherwise. It's super convienient and easy from a story and lore perspective, and gives folks all the functionality they wan't (x-faction instanced content and housing), but retains the conflict as a narrative base and PvP driver. Edited February 17, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- Wow, no, seriously, don't -- not if you're going to continue to allow open-world PvP, especially not if you're going to incentivize it at some point in the future. I have never seen a PvP game that allowed inter-side chat that didn't routinely and regularly blow up with racist, homophobic, sexist trash talk. You would need six or ten times the moderation staff you have now to keep inter-faction chat from driving decent people away in droves. Inter-faction chat in a game with open-world PvP would drive me away pretty quickly. Yes, it's possible now with an add-on. But it's rare enough that the other side can hear you that it's not attracting every bigoted foul-mouthed immature troll in the world, it's not obvious to people who completely lack empathy that this is a place they can come to make other people feel bad. Let's keep it that way, please? | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- See, the reason I don't like that is, I could make friends with people on the opposite faction (which isn't easily done now), but there would be limitations imposed on my friendship with them. We could do dungeons together, but not raids. We could group up for adventures, but couldn't form an arena team. If something like this was going to be added, I think the ability to change faction (or race or whatever) would have to be included simultaneously. | |} ---- ---- That is why there's an /ignore command. If the language barrier goes down, the /ignore command should also work on members of the opposite faction. And it'll only be in /say and /e. It's not like we're asking for universal /zone chat. | |} ---- Maybe lore wise they didn't do the best they could but for game play it was done exceptionally well and really did help fix a lot of the issues the game was having due to lack of pop. Who open world pvp's? I very rarely run into people in the world on a PvE server and they are almost never flagged for pvp. PvP servers are dead and I don't think there's anything carbine can actually do to save warhound, especially since the ONLY difference is open world pvp. I believe that not doing this because it might ruin open world pvp is an awful excuse considering world pvp hardly ever happens. Edited February 17, 2016 by qqmoarploxify | |} ---- Don't forget the used car sales-rat merchant Chua. "Good price, Chua quality" to me means that it's absolutely, positively guaranteed to blow up within five minutes or five uses. Whichever comes first. Edited February 17, 2016 by TheChuaBrigade | |} ---- ---- Really couldn't of said it better myself. The only reason the divide is still going on in WoW is because the player base is large enough to support this. Swtor also has the divide still but I mean, that game is 100% about story and lore whereas that's only a portion of Wildstar. People are keeping their chin up about the steam release and that's okay, look at the glass half full if you wan't, but I foresee the same thing happening as f2p where we get a spike of players and it drops shortly afterwards. | |} ---- All I can say is they better have their "oh crap" button ready to go to drop the walls after the inevitable population drop after Steam. I just don't understand why in a struggling game it is still even on the table to keep it. Priority should be "how can we stop player base bleed", not "how can we preserve the original lore". ESPECIALLY when the lore is theirs to change in any direction the game NEEDS. And another major point on this issue is NOBODY is going to leave if you drop the faction wall, some will whinge and that will be the extent of it. Whinging. However if you leave it and people get sick of long queue times or simply not being able to do content or not being able to play with friends people WILL leave and already have for these reasons. Edited February 18, 2016 by H3rboss | |} ---- What if they added a "Faction Purist" button that automatically rejects party invitations from the other faction, jumbles their chat with the alien font, hide their houses on the Visit button and make the matchmaker look for other "Faction Purists" when you queue? Or "Lore Purist", maybe, depending on how they'd go about it. Edited February 18, 2016 by Ildur | |} ---- Why is everything some elitist conspiracy to you? removing factions would not bring any new players, nor is there any evidence it would keep a significant number of players who wouldn't leave for multiple other reasons in any event. This has nothing to do with "purity". the Game is built on factional conflict, the game would be fundamentally different with out separate factions. | |} ---- I'm just gonna throw it out there that this option would actually be a huge waste of time as there would be so little people that would actually use it and I guarantee that those that don't want the split wouldn't even use this option after a short time anyway as they soon realize they are missing out. If it's super quick and easy sure, throw it in, otherwise don't bother wasting the dev teams already VERY precious time. | |} ---- This has been explained you a million times, it's not about bringing new players in, nobody is claiming that. It's about not splitting up the playerbase for a completely arbitrary reason. Low population games simply CANNOT afford playerbase splits because as queues and activities take longer to do, more and more people DO lose interest and leave, this is just common sense. Nobody logs into the game and enjoys standing around waiting in a queue for 15 minutes or more, why waste the time when you could actually be PLAYING another game. The "conflict" in this game drives absolutely ZERO people to log into the game and play and joining the factions would not stop even you from playing, you might be a bit miffed because "lore", but you'd keep playing, you know you would. Do you think you could get over being miffed for the health of the game? Or would you prefer to just keep seeing the numbers quickly dwindle down like I'm seeing til they shut the doors? Read my pros and cons list and tell me where I have it wrong. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- Or perhaps those who say the war is somewhat involved in the questing knows what is going on, lol? That didn't make sense. Basically the war is the focus from level 1 - 27 which is the end of Whitevale. Perhaps even at level 25 when you visit the Lopp village. Literally from that point on, we're more focused on the Strain. Not initially in Wilderrun. It's more like a race between a famous Dommie tv host and a exile explorer to reach the Everpool Sanctum. Ildur summed it up pretty well. After Whitevale we should've been able to 'defect' into a third faction dedicated to researching on how to defeat The Entity and kill it. | |} ---- What are the good points against dropping the faction wall? So far I haven't seen anything past "but lore!" (Which again, is Carbine's so they could write in any reason they could think of anyway) | |} ---- This has been discussed for over a year now. If you want them, go find them. | |} ---- And I've followed all the recent threads, does it stretch out of "but lore" territory or is that it? | |} ---- ---- I agree with what you said but disagree with this specifically. Circles are far too limited to support cross-faction guilds. If your guild doesn't want to be mixed faction that's great but don't take that option away from those that do. You whole post was extremely well put. It should be required reading for every aspiring game designer. Adding options like this should be dirt simple and always encouraged. | |} ---- Well this is heartening, even if you don't have say. ^^ | |} ---- This might be true but there also might be more "Purists" than you'd think. I can definitely seeing myself using some Faction-only options, along with several other players I know, if they were put in. Housing, for example, maybe even Dungeons. Something about the Dominion just annoys me a lot, especially Chua. It's like the neighbor who just moved in on the floor right above you who vacuums at 5 am, listens to loud, obnoxious music, hangs up those gigantic brassy loud loud loud wind-chimes that No One likes that you can hear every day all day despite your own tv/music/activities, and when they see you around, they have the audacity to complain about you, lol...this is very, very basically how I view the Dommies. "This is how we're doing things, if you don't like it then you're the one in the wrong for not conforming to our society/actions even though this was actually your home first." I don't wanna see the Dominion around if I don't have to, but I wouldn't keep that option from others who want a bigger Base to pull from who don't mind the Faction differences. I don't know really anything about coding and whatnot, but I can't imagine that that little button would be such a big deal to put in. Edit: @PlasmaJohn...the guilds probably wouldn't really be a big deal, but I just thought that since we still have Faction-specific areas, like Thayd and such, I assume those would stay hostile to opposites in an effort to keep the lore as-is somehow, despite guild affiliation, and it might hinder some activities/actions. Edited February 18, 2016 by Kavi | |} ---- Pretty much. Want to balance the populations? Give Dominion Luminai and give the Exiles Murgh. Another simpler option, expand the class choices for Draken. I mean, Draken are awesome, I'd play mine more if they could be the classes I like most. Hell, there's a thread about how great Draken females are that's been active since the game first launched. I guess balance it by expanding Granok classes? I like the walking boulders myself, but I get the impression they're the Exiles least played race, especially when it comes to females, and adding more classes to them probably wouldn't add more players to Exiles than adding more classes to Draken would add to Dominion. I could be wrong though. Edited February 18, 2016 by Atomicpanda | |} ---- I can see faction specific areas like the capitols and regional bases keeping their guards hostile. I can't really think of any guild function that requires a city based mechanic. | |} ---- The raids require you to walk to the portal in the zones since we don't have easy access raid portals in town so there's not really anything preventing cross faction PvE content beyond the first Sim Core but no one does that nor does it have a vet version. I'd really prefer that Luminai don't become a playable race since they are not exactly portrayed as warriors or in a large population. They're more mayors and take seats in powerful positions in politics while the other more common races work for them. I doubt an extra race will suddenly shift the population, but the main topic here is for cross faction content. It doesn't matter if Exiles are more popular than Dominion if they are both able to party up together in a dungeon. | |} ---- ---- Replace steam launch with F2P launch and you'll see why that doesn't mean anything honestly. They need to do something much larger to at least begin increasing the game's population than just add another pointless method of finding the game, I don't even think drop 7 had anything that seemed like it'd actually bring back the F2P crowd that found runing/dungeons/everything endgame too complicated. To the main point though, removing warhound would be a better starting point than removing factions (and much less difficult) and even if they do that it's a another pointless bandaid on top of an issue that's not getting any better, the dwindling population. It's sorta similar to what F2P was, it did help for a month but in the end nothing from drop 6 including F2P was enough to draw in AND keep players. More dungeons (including normal ones), making dungeon/pvp spam the best way to hit level 50, less complicated runing, even less expensive runing, tutorials for runing/LAS setups, all classes available for all races, an additional class, an additional race possibly and maybe even slightly higher base dmg to help out starting level 50s, some kind of LFR. As much as I hate LFR and find it brain dead in nature, I can recognize that the majority of casuals seem to want it in some form, but those are all things that would actually help the game increase population and retain players. Even better optimization couldn't hurt either. Edited February 18, 2016 by Naix | |} ---- ---- "But the lore" isn't even a good argument for most of it. The language barrier makes absolutely zero sense, it's completely absent in the lore and does nothing but detract from gameplay. The housing divide would only be beneficial to remove, especially given how many people use housing to create scenery instead of a skyplot. Which Carbine has taken notice of and started catering to. The guild divide only makes sense for faction-purists, but given all the cross-faction groups and all the times we see members of Exile and Dominion races co-existing peacefully or even working together, the idea of cross-faction guilds doesn't seem even remotely lore-breaking unless it's an RP guild dedicated to the faction's military or government. (And even then, there are traitors.) Though that one doesn't feel as priority as removing the stupid language and housing barriers. The mail barrier leaves people high and dry with their own alts, and leaves the Exiles with a ridiculously larger amount of many special event items that are able to be traded, but can't be put on the auction house. The dungeon barrier and current raid barriers make little to no sense lore-wise because faction is never relevant to the story of the dungeons or raids, and both often deal with things the Exiles and Dominion have canonically at least formed shaky truces over. When you're on shiphands/Expeditions, you're working as a private contractor. I say leave the faction barrier to standard questing and PvP. Maybe for Adventures. *Handwobble.* There are a few adventures both factions get that I could see working fine cross-faction without any conflict to the lore. Since Adventures are just simulations run by the Caretaker, whom both factions aid and work with regularly. And are also usually done in association with COGS. | |} ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- ---- No they don't. Your interpretation of some of the smaller portions of the customization like eye lashes is subjective, and it's still only a third (at least in the case of the eye lashes) of the total options. Don't give me that garbage. As far as customization goes, there's ONE gender. Hell, they all have the same voice too. | |} ---- A steam release brings a new outlet to get people playing the game, plus offloads the PR and marketing load onto steam (steam publicizes it's games to it's user base, which is substantial). Wildstar has never been marketed well, ever. Not for BETA, not for initial release, and not for F2P. Faction imbalance is only a problem in PvP centric games; in PvE it should never be an issue as long as content is designed properly (which it isn't always). There are quite a few Dominion guilds (on Entity at least) and I constantly see a good number of them recruiting (especially raiding guilds). No one has ever actually explained how removing the "faction wall" would BRING IN MORE PLAYERS. They haven't because it won't, there is no mechanism by which integrating the factions will make a poorly marketed game more appealing to non-players. If the argument is that integrating the factions will keep more players from leaving, that's equally lacking in an actual mechanism to keep players around. All I ever see is people talk about queue times, which are less limited by population and more limited by tanks and healers not queueing all the time, which is fixed by incentivising support roles, not throwing more DEEPS at the problem (which is ostensibly what keeping a few extra players from leaving via faction integration would do). People love to point to Rift when it comes to faction integration / changes in an F2P game. They neglect to mention that the change had no significant impact on the number of players or income to Trion. | |} ---- ---- ---- In my opinion dropping some, but not all, of the barriers would make my playing time more enjoyable as well! | |} ---- And how exactly would the Wildstar version of Sylvari be unique. The Luminai are already part of the Dominion, and they're the kind of race that a lot of people like. All Carbine has to do is tweak the lore a bit. | |} ---- If by "a bit" you mean completely. I think there are better options than suddenly creating a massive population of what, to the Dominion, are the children of gods. | |} ---- The Luminai we get to make can be of a "weaker" bloodline, but still have the traditional space elves look as the rest of their brethren. There I made that up in like a minute. I want them to fix my side, rather than play with the hillbilly faction. | |} ---- ---- Cassian Highborns. What you're describing is a Cassian Highborn. Cassian Highborns are from Luminai bloodlines that became too "diluted" to be considered Luminai, and many still have pointy ears or wear jewelry to emulate pointy ears. | |} ---- ---- ---- Hmmm, now that I reread my own comment, wouldn't this open up for an expansion and bypass the lore barrier? Because if you want a massive galactic empire to break apart, the only way is to screw up their leader lol. Still a joke though. Edited February 19, 2016 by GGGGGGG | |} ---- W00T. Now only if someone with decision making power would reply here and give us at least a no or a maybe :D. At least do this for raids / dungeons. We already did it for pvp! A lot of us who have been with you in this game 100% since beta would love something like this to happen to increase community size. I'd say you kinda owe the portion of us that have been around so long to increase our community size :3. I am sure we could work out some kind of lore thing. Edited February 20, 2016 by Sesshoumaru | |} ---- I'd like an option to have pointy ears since it was confirmed that Highborns have them. | |} ---- ---- Exactly. The problems people are pretending are due to population are actually due to role incentivization. PvP queues pop about as fast in W* as they do in SWTOR (Jedi Covenant x Entity). Other queues pop less frequently, not for lack of people queued, but for lack of healers and tanks. Incentivize support roles better and that problem is solved. Edited February 20, 2016 by Nazryn | |} ---- FFXIV made support roles wanted by making Role Wanted: Healer/Tank/DPS in the random queues that gave you a bonus reward for queuing up as one of those. Most of the time it was Tank, with occasional Healer. I played as a tank and loved the instant pops. Don't really have any sort of daily bonus for queuing up other than the goodie bag for queuing for every single vet ( where everyone would vote disband on ProtoAnything ) | |} ---- That's a great point Tawa, and honestly is much more likely to solve the problems people in here are actually suffering. Grant a lucrative bonus for Tanks and healers to queue, and PvE queues will start to move towards parity with the PvP ones. | |} ---- ----